Can't help myself!!

[HIS-MOTHER]

And tha bad news either way you look at it...

 

Bush still holds office for a few more month's Plenty of time to f*** up some more s***.

[Joshdch]

exactly, and someone needs to tell obama not to sit at the back of cars with the roofs down, anything could happen. but im sure and hopefully he will sort things out.

[Defcon|Rich]

Finally something we agree on Daniel

 

Let's give Obama a chance at least. God knows nobody could possibly screw things up as much as Bush did. He took over an administration that enjoyed the highest economic growth in the history of this country and plunged us into one of the worst financial crisis of our time.. If anyone sees that as a good thing you need your head examined..

[Joshdch]

Well its in a big mess now, anything he does will probably be better than what bush ever did. I'd give him a chance i would of voted for him anyway, you will see what his actions come together he will make sure America is back on its feet with the issues what are happening now =) but its not just the US dont forget its already balls'd up in the UK =(

[leetservers]

The guy is a LEFT wingnut, he moved right to fool the stupid clowns who voted for him.

-bobby

[DougK94]

I did not vote for him, BUT, now he is going to be our President, and we as Americans need to support him. One of the main things I was displeased with our voters about, was the ones who refused to vote for him because of his race, or those that only voted for him because of his race. That did not even factor into my decision not to vote for him at all.

[HGN-Daniel]

The guy is a LEFT wingnut, he moved right to fool the stupid clowns who voted for him.

-bobby

 

McCain also moved to the right to gain the support of "the clowns that voted for him." Prior to this, McCain was more of a moderate than the right-leaning conservative he played in the election. If THAT McCain was running, he probably would have won. That and not picking Sarah Palin.. he should have picked someone like Mitt Romney.

[Defcon|Rich]

Agreed, If McCain chose a qualified running mate it may have been slightly closer.

 

Fact is Obama won by a convincing margin which tells me people believe in what he has to say. Voting or not voting because of skin color is really sad.

[DougK94]

I was not a huge McCain fan either, I originally wanted Fred Thompson, but he started too late and then did not come across very well. When it was obvious he was not going very far, I decided Romney would be it, and then McCain came on strong knocking him out.

 

I do not like Hillary, but if I had to choose only between her and Obama, I think I would have to go with her. Obama is way too liberal for my tastes (McCain is too, but he is not nearly as liberal as Obama). But like I said earlier, Obama is OUR President-elect, and we all should support him now, he will be the one in charge. And if McCain would have won, we all should have supported him too.

 

But at least here, unlike many countries, we all have a chance to make a legitimate choice in our leaders, and also have the right to speak our opinions of them.

[{-SMAKU-}_MotorMouth]

Taxes are a necessary evil for schools and the things you listed and their not elitist luxuries that's what taxes are supposed to be used for...talk about using sound bites?When a President or future President says he wants to tax a person because they make to much and "HE" has the right to take it and give it to a damn bum to lazy to work hard for it, that is the definition of socialist. My definition of a bum is anyone who can work but chooses not to and expects the government to keep them up.

 

If running mates really matter please explain Biden. Palin was drawing bigger crowds than McCain. She will be running again and I would vote for her if she does. McCain should have voted no on the $700 billion.

 

 

Socialism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

 

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.[1][2] Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.[3][4]

 

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.[1]

 

Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy.

 

In the 1970s and the 1980s, Yugoslavian, Hungarian, Polish and Chinese Communists instituted various forms of market socialism combining co-operative and State ownership models with the free market exchange.[5] This is unlike the earlier theoretical market socialist proposal put forth by Oskar Lange in that it allows market forces, rather than central planners to guide production and exchange.[6] Anarcho-syndicalists, Luxemburgists (such as those in the Socialist Party USA) and some elements of the United States New Left favor decentralized collective ownership in the form of cooperatives or workers' councils.

[JasonF]

We should get rid of public schooling, roads and the police. After all, those are just socialist and elitist luxuries.

 

The government has a place in everday lives: provide a stable currency, defend the country and the infrastructure of the nation. Besides that it needs to stay the hell out of my life and not intrude on it.

 

And hey, we just gave the richest people in the country 700 billion dollars, whats another few hundred billion dollars?

 

The money went to buying bad loans from companies and not to the pockets of rich people.

 

Meanwhile, Bush doubled our national debt in 8 years with no visible improvements to our country. (quite the opposite actually)

 

2 wars and unchecked spending will do that. If Bush was a true conservative, the budgets would not have changed from when he took office. Instead the budget has grown due to the increase in the education bill, prescription drug plan for seniors, etc.

[VicToMeyeZR]

What company?

 

Any company.. Anyone that can be considered in the middles class... You all think what he said in any of his speech's was true? He lying through his teeth to get elected. He will destroy jobs, raise ALL tax's rate by pretty much double. You think capitol gains in only rich? Think again. Thats your parents and grandparents retirement accounts, that's yours and my retirement accounts. Sell a house? "capitol gains".. If you actually look at the numbers. 1.3Trillion in new spending. You think only rich people and companies can cover that? NO.. Thats US.. Anyone over $42,000 a year.

 

We have PROVEN that raising corporate taxes doesn't increase government income, it decreases it. The prefect example was Reagan. He droped all taxes quite a bit. The upper tax bracket was @ 70%.. He dropped it to 28.5% and federal tax income nearly doubled.. Millions of jobs were created, interest rates dropped from 20+% to around 12. This was proven, and indisputable. Obama Bin Laden, will destroy us economically..

[Defcon|Rich]

Taxes are a necessary evil for schools and the things you listed and their not elitist luxuries that's what taxes are supposed to be used for...talk about using sound bites?When a President or future President says he wants to tax a person because they make to much and "HE" has the right to take it and give it to a damn bum to lazy to work hard for it, that is the definition of socialist. My definition of a bum is anyone who can work but chooses not to and expects the government to keep them up.

 

 

Everyone pays taxes whether you like it or not and the money has to come from somewhere and whoever's in the white house they will both take your money. Statements like "I don't want the Gov. telling me where my monies being spent" is plain stupid and ignorant.

 

Obama's plan calls for more taxes to be taken from the top 1% which currently get nearly nothing taken out. As a result middleclass will pay lower taxes.

 

Under McCain's plan the top 1% will receive an additional 3 billion in tax relief and as a result the middleclass will have to pay the balance.

 

So how exactly is that any different? The money to pay taxes has to come from somewhere and unless your in that top 1% I fail to see how you would see that as bad?

[HGN-Daniel]

The government has a place in everday lives: provide a stable currency, defend the country and the infrastructure of the nation. Besides that it needs to stay the hell out of my life and not intrude on it.

They haven't been doing a pretty good job. The dollar has dropped significantly over the last few years and our bridges and roads are crumbling.

 

The money went to buying bad loans from companies and not to the pockets of rich people.

Wrong. A good portion of it will be going to the severance pays of the CEOs, whilst they let go thousands of their loyal workers and horde the money.

 

2 wars and unchecked spending will do that. If Bush was a true conservative, the budgets would not have changed from when he took office. Instead the budget has grown due to the increase in the education bill, prescription drug plan for seniors, etc.

The federal government has probably paid more for the war in Iraq than those two programs combined. Besides, usually states pay for their own education/schooling systems. I know I personally would rather give seniors healthcare than fund a pointless war. The fact is that "red states" usually take more from the government than they give the government, which isn't the case for quite a few "blue states." So much for balanced budgets..

 

I find it ironic that Alaska is pretty much the definition of socialist. They give their residents their share of the profit from oil. And even then, Alaska still takes more from the federal government than it gives it in the form of taxes, etc.

 

EDIT: Also, Obama will be using a progressive tax which basically treats everyone equally. For the first 250K you would be taxed like anyone else, anything beyond/extra will be taxed at the higher rate, and so on. It works out in the end.

[SickPuppy]

Obama is the AntiChrist and the end of days is near.

[tool38]

Obama is the AntiChrist and the end of days is near.... You should really think about what you say before you say it. That had to be the dumbiest statement Ive heard in this thread. AntiChrist lol if anybody in the goverment was the antichrist it would have to be George Bush. You guys sit here and talk about Socialism what the hell you think has been going on for the last 8 years? Goverment is in control of everything that is why the united states is in the trouble its in today. Dont blame Obama for socialism when we are already socilized. You all need to stand behind the Prez Elect instead of commin into a forum and spattin off at the mouth. Give the dude a chance. Obama has reunited this country already and he hasnt even took office yet.

[VicToMeyeZR]

re-united. lol.... you are blind my 3 poster friend...................

[{-SMAKU-}_MotorMouth]

Finally a news channel that gets it right. LoL

 

Obama Win Causes Obsessive Supporters To Realize How Empty Their Lives Are

[{-SMAKU-}_MotorMouth]

The money to pay taxes has to come from somewhere and unless your in that top 1% I fail to see how you would see that as bad?

 

Because I'm an American not blinded by empty promises. I would be a hypocriet to say 'tax the rich" then when I do get rich say it's wrong. I have worked for what I have since I was 16. I have a growing 401k account. When I get old enough to retire I will be making over $250,000. Everyone here that thinks it OK to tax heavy and grow the government, then do your part and file 1040ez and don't take any no deductions. That way YOU won't be a hypocrite and can pay more. I would rather support my community and spend it where I prefer.

 

That $250,000 will effect a lot of people that will be drawing from 401k accounts. Now the Democrats are saying they need to protect 401k. I will draw every dime I have in my account before that will happen. I have lost money I will never see from the Social Insecurity program. That is the biggest scam they ever had.

 

I'm not saying taxes are not needed. The government does not need to be so damn big. The federal Government should only take what it needs and no more. If a state wants a clock museum then they need to pay for it. If a scumbag landlord wants to build an apartment complex he needs to pay for it. He does not need to have his fellow Chicago friend scam the money for him.

[Defcon|Rich]

The only thing we had the past 8 years is empty promises..

 

The biggest debate being thrown around seems to be Obama "taking" our money. Like I said before someone has to pay the taxes. I tend to lean more democrat but honestly it's more about the man who's running then anything else. I voted for Bush Sr. way back then and stand by that vote but this guy McCain in my opinion would be a terrible mistake for both Dems and Reps.

 

Obama's not perfect by any means but I believe he was a much better choice and a land slide election confirmed that. McCain had no strategy or plan for pretty much anything including the VP pick which was a huge blunder.. It's very clear the only strategy McCain had was to get into office by any means neccessary and that scares me.. The Palin pick was a glaring sign of that.. Reps. wanted to grab the Hilary vote, Fortunatly hilary supporters are not that stupid.. If he can get that cocky with trying to gain office what do you think would happen after?

 

 

Republicans want to keep it the way it's been where the wealthiest keep getting richer and enjoy almost no taxes and everyone else like me and you are paying more every year. Reps. take money from me and you, Dems take money from the wealthy.. The only difference is which side of the fence your on but saying "Obama's taking our money or "I don't want the government touching my money" is absurd because it's been happening for 200 years now. You guys just figured that out?.

 

Trickle down economics only works if the rich give back some of the wealth which everyone can agree doesn't happen and has been getting worse over the past few years ending with this current recession which oddly enough just last month at least 2 U.S oil companies realized the highest profit earnings in their recorded histories. These are the guys who will pay more taxes by the way..

 

 

Here's a nice video that demonstrates Mr. McCains principles.. Flip-Flops anyone?

 

 

 

Here's a video of Biden that sealed the deal for most voters. He's got balls. McCain never had balls like that.

 

[SickPuppy]

Obama is the AntiChrist and the end of days is near.... You should really think about what you say before you say it. That had to be the dumbiest statement Ive heard in this thread. AntiChrist lol if anybody in the goverment was the antichrist it would have to be George Bush.

 

I think just about everyone agrees that Bush is hated all over the world.

 

You need to read up on you Bible my friend. The book of Revelation tells of the end of days. A leader will come to power who is loved throughout the world, this is the antichrist. He will have as an ally a false profit or religious leader that will spread abhorrence of the Jews.

 

This is Obama and Reverend Wight. If this is truly the end of days then look for this to happen six months after Obama is sworn into office.

 

Obama will force Israel, the PLO, and Hamas into a peace treaty. 3 and 1/2 years later Israel will be attacked and the U.S. will not honor the treaty. The world will turn against Israel. 7 years later we will see the return of Christ.

 

Look at the conditions described in the book of Revelation. Wars, earthquakes, famine, rising sea levels, all of this is now coming to pass. Only a blind man, religiously blind that is, cannot recognize the religious significance of this past election.

[tool38]

LOL Someone please lock this thread before we all get banned!!! Biting my tongue and walking away!!!

[ECF]

Well everyone is able to have their own opinion on things. I don't think bring the bible into the discussion has any bearing on the original topic, but as long as people are not flaming or putting down other poeple's believes then I guess we can leave this one open.

 

Of course if the secret service comes knocking on my door I may rethink locking it

[{-SMAKU-}_MotorMouth]

Of course if the secret service comes knocking on my door I may rethink locking it

 

I just hope you don't live in Ohio. LoL

 

In the last 8 years I've not had it so bad. I have had a Job like most have had. After all the unemployment was the lowest rate ever. I started a company and bought a house. I don't have as much money as I did 8 years ago to go spend willy nilly because I have more expenses. I'm not having to have my house foreclosed on because I didn't go buy a home 5x more than I make. Everyone that says it's been hard the last 8 years a lot of them I talk to has had kids, new home, brand new cars every couple years ( which just compounds the debt of the next car), credit cards out the wazoo and because of that they didn't save. That's why most are in the trouble they're in today.

 

It wasn't a landslide victory for Obama. He only won by just 2% more than Bush won by in 2004. Electoral College vote was heavy in Obama's favor but the peoples vote was still close.

 

If the business taxes go up unemployment will go sky high. They will not employ a person if it will save them the amount of the tax increase. Why should they? When they sale a product we will pay more for it. We pay the taxes because they will raise the price to compensate for it. Just like you will raise the price for a slot it your expenses go up as everyone will. It's no different for a big company.

 

I love it when they complain about the war in Iraq. We shouldn't have gone, Bush didn't have to do it. Well what if all those countries intel was correct and Saddam did have weapons like they thought. If he didn't go then, the same people would have said he was incompetent because he had the intel and didn't do anything. This Country can not be reactive any longer we have to be proactive. Europe was reactive in WWII look what almost happened there. We're not a country like Iran or Russia or Britain for that matter, we turn it back over to the people. Every war we've been in we've helped rebuild the country back. There is a reason the UN is in the US and not country like Iran or Russia. Because we do follow a set of rules. We're not liked because most people in other countries don't have a free press, freedom to search the Internet without government control. They only hear what their over protective government tells them to believe. This is a great Country we have people who do see what we stand for dying to get here or should I saying dying to leave Communist countries.

 

I don't like it that Obama won I do think McCain would have been better. Obama will be my President. I won't do the crap so many of the Bush hater bandwagon zombies did. If he's right I say it. When he's wrong I'll say it. After all he will only be in office for 4 years then Palin will be back stronger than ever. Unemployment will be worse, taxes higher for the few still working, Iraq will be a bigger war, gas will cost more, electricity will cost more. The earth will be cooler no more of the "Green" crap. We will all be walking because we can't afford cars anymore.

[studeggle]

Well since the conversation will continue I will answer a few posts.

Didn't see anybody complaining when Republicans had control over Congress and the Oval Office for 6 years.

Actually there was plenty of complaining, at least in the circles I tend to run in. We are very strong supporters of the checks and balances our unique government setup allows to exist, bemoan any time it doesn’t exist and feel if you review history (accurately giving credit where its due, not just looking at who actually held the office at the time but what actually lead up to the event. No government office holds the magic power to just wave a wand and change the US) you would see that most of the bad things have resulted from problems with the checks and balances being tipped. This is why I have never and will never simply vote Republican, or Democrat, or even independent for that matter. I review each candidate carefully and I also review who is in office and consider the effects of another democrat or republican in that part of the government.

He took over an administration that enjoyed the highest economic growth in the history of this country and plunged us into one of the worst financial crisis of our time

There are countless problems with this mindless democratic mud throwing. First there is a matter of timing, and the economy started turning very quickly after he took power. Presidency isn’t some magic office allowing instant change of the US economy. Second many areas of the economy were already well past the limits that economic analysts felt they could support and had been predicted to burst BEFORE he was even elected. There was a real problem (heck still is) with uneducated Americans thinking that because one person made some nice cash doing something that everyone should be able to jump in and do it. But there is no piece of the economy that can support that and when everyone tries to run to the latest thing it pops each of them leaving a trail of failed business in its wake, certainly not good for economy. Then lets look at all the subprime mortgages issues as people felt there houses value could do nothing but skyrocket, but while real estate will always be needed it can NOT climb at monstrous rates forever. Leaving a double whamming on the housing market, and people housing situation directly effects there spending habits. Haven’t seen to many homeless bums going on shopping sprees. Then there is the effects of 9/11 on the economy, do you really expect scared American who have seen just how powerful the terrorists are and realized how vulnerable they are to continue there same spending as though nothing had happened? Or are you one of those nut jobs that thinks the entire 9/11 was planned by our government, perhaps even Bush himself This is just a brief overview of the problems with the idea of Bush is to blame for our entire economy, So I think trying throwing it all on his shoulders is as blind as one can be.

And dont tell that Obama is near socialism, you dont have idea about what socialism is!

while I’m not entirely sure I would fully classify Obama and much of the current Democrat regimen as full socialism, they are awfully close. And I have toured the world (not on vacation) enough to have a fairly good idea. I’d say I know far more about it then many Americans from having seen and experienced it first hand. And the democrats recent talks starting up of seizing American’s 401K and IRA plans and placing them under government control sure does seem to be bordering on it. Those of us that have had the brains and work ethic to set ourselves up with retirement must now look at the real possibility that that will be taken from us by the government and we must rely on them for our retirement sure does stink of socialism to me. And if it passes after Obama takes power while I will weep for myself and those that voted McCain I will only laugh at and tell those that voted Obama they got exactly what they deserved regardless of how much they had saved up.

And it doesn’t matter weather you offer grand tax breaks to the wealthy or tax there socks off, they will stay wealthy. The business owner is going to pass costs on to the consumer, regardless of where those costs come from. Does that really need to be stated on a forum that should be primarily business owners. Are you really trying to tell me that you just take a lifestyles cut when your costs go up and that you don’t set the prices of your new products accordingly? I know there are a few that try that but seems like most come and go and its those of us that keep saying you have to set your prices according to your business plan not according to what everyone else is charging that are still here and kicking, or was I imagining reading those types of posts. Why do people seem to like to throw out there own book of wisdom when it comes to politics?